Curse

vixro · Feb 13, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Doesn't seem like a bug to me, ram works differently than a skill stack because it's dynamic.

Ram will save your current RRPM and return to that amount when it ends. e.g.

Starting RRPM 25%, use ram, 25% saved as a variable, ram finishes, load variable.

Starting RRPM 25%, use ram, 25% saved as a variable, once you reach 100% before ram ends, use ram again, 100% is saved as the variable of your starting RRPM before the original variable had time to load, ram finishes, you return to 100% rrpm when the new variable amount is loaded.

A simple fix to this "bug" would be to make sure that when you use ram a second time the original variable containing your RRPM is not replaced or is loaded first before increasing the speed to 100%. This way, no matter how many rams you used or echo'd, you'd always return to your original starting RRPM before the first ram was used.

Feathermoore Rep · Feb 13, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

The chances of a top100 time without double ram are definately not likely. You have to perform an absolutlely flawless run. An echo+srb in the first two boxes, is your only shot. Even then without knowledge of the double ram trick for the spiral bridge or an echo. You're not going to make a top 100 time. Theres no way to keep as much speed through that section without it. IMO ~467k-470k is probably the limit on that run without double ram. Yes a 7-10s second difference in time from the top 100. With double ram you easily gain several seconds in the first two gates. In the later half on the beach, if you don't double ram, between the bridge and the spiral, you lose way to much speed, and theres your extra 5-7 seconds easily lost.

The problem with double ram, is that when you use it before it ends, instead of updating the skill duration, it cancels the skills and then applys a new one. If you ram to late the skill works as intended. But when you use it before it ends, it acts like its not already activated, theres where the update to 100% rrpm on ending comes in.

So yes its this is BUG. No other skill in the game works like this, so you can't say theres logic to it. You can reverse engineer how the RBR logic is interpretting the skill, but you can't say that compared to how every other skill in guildwars works, that its logical.

And Lain - stop baiting Killed U Man. Whether you won or not I don't care, but you don't have to shove it in his face/anyone else's that they didn't make top 100. The fact comes down to that the double-ram significantly improves your average time, and to consistently been able to have a chance at top100 times you had to have used it.

Thats what it all comes down to.

Lain Akazukin · Feb 14, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

The chances of a top100 time without double ram are definately not likely. You have to perform an absolutlely flawless run. An echo+srb in the first two boxes, is your only shot. Even then without knowledge of the double ram trick for the spiral bridge or an echo. You're not going to make a top 100 time. Theres no way to keep as much speed through that section without it. IMO ~467k-470k is probably the limit on that run without double ram. Yes a 7-10s second difference in time from the top 100. With double ram you easily gain several seconds in the first two gates. In the later half on the beach, if you don't double ram, between the bridge and the spiral, you lose way to much speed, and theres your extra 5-7 seconds easily lost.

I'm sorry but this is bullshit, you don't need double ram at all to keep up your speed for the spiral bridge. I think only 2 of my top 100 scores were from getting a echo-srb combo at the first three boxes (you can get both boxes in the water with a higher chance for the combo but a ~0.5 seconds loss on your run), the others I got by getting a single SRB before the cave and later another SRB or an echo.

Quote:

And Lain - stop baiting Killed U Man. Whether you won or not I don't care, but you don't have to shove it in his face/anyone else's that they didn't make top 100. The fact comes down to that the double-ram significantly improves your average time, and to consistently been able to have a chance at top100 times you had to have used it.

Thats what it all comes down to.

I'm just telling him how it is, I know there are several top 100 players including myself who didn't know about the double ram trick. It is possible and not unlikely at all if you know what you're doing.

Feathermoore Rep · Feb 14, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Ok, so your telling me with just ram and dash for the spiral bridge section, you can maintain 75%+ all almost way through? I'm sorry thats just not possible. You need to either have an SRB, an echo, or the effect of a dash/ram/srb just wearing off as you enter the bridge in order to do that. Without it, as soon as you hit the beach your down to regular speed.

I didn't say you couldn't post a top 100 without it, I just said its not likely.

Performance Pudding · Feb 14, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

ive gotten 460 with 1 super roller beetle and a echo
if u get 2 which since i know a few people with the mini thats how they did it
ya so its basically luck of the box and noobs racing against you

¿Evan¿ · Feb 14, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

I HAVE FIGURED OUT THE SECRET TO ROLLERBEETLE RACING.
and it is...................................

DONT SUCK.

Lain Akazukin · Feb 14, 2008, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

Ok, so your telling me with just ram and dash for the spiral bridge section, you can maintain 75%+ all almost way through? I'm sorry thats just not possible.

You can't say it's impossible just because you don't know how to do it. Yes it is possible, you can maintain 80%+ this way easily.

Solas · Feb 14, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

It doesn't make a huge difference with classic echo/SRB, because of where you have to burn the speed buffs. You save yourself about a second with a double ram at gate 2. You save yourself about a second or two with the double ram at the end. Power-ramming the shortcut helps, but the rams aren't how you pick up the time there (this is incidental to what you really accomplish).
.

+ a second or 2 per gate with 100% RRPM... is alot even half a secound makes a differance...

Code:

Ram: For 2 seconds, all adjacent enemy rollerbeetles are knocked down.

How did logically somone get that to translate to a full rrpm boast?

The fact is that there was an exploit, people exploited it, and got rare mini-beetles and cheeted many people out of getting one.

its not an exploit you say?
then why didn't ye it on fforums when the whoel thing was being talked about?.....oh yeah then ye would habve to rely on skill, silly me.

btw any of those that got it fairly ,gratz on your mini

Killed u man · Feb 14, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

What is wrong with some people? Lain Akazukin, you are ,close to, the most ignorant person I have met on a forum

You KNOW you're wrong, and you as a defense you always hide behind the: "I WUS WAAYA BETTA AND U JUST SACKED!!!"

That's not how it works, I give an arguement, and you give one. Whoever gets the best/most good arguements wins...

And yes: "You should have played better" is NOT an arguement.

You say you got 2 TOP100 scores without Dual Ram? Bs, what's the point of lying here? I must have done over 500 runs during the weekend (Prolly bit more), and I NEVER managed to get passed Spiral at constant High speed. (Unless I had echo or SRB)
I tried about 50 different strategies, varieing from Ram -> Dash, Ram -> Dash before Gate, etc... NONE of them got me closely to what Dual Ram did. Dual Ram for me trough that intire area a +- 85% Speed (Without Echo or SRB)... My max score (With 2 SRB and Echo) was 467K, Still lacking 13K, I hardly believe you can make up 13 seconds without Dual Ramming!

Look, Ram does NOT work the way a skill SHOULD work, it works like a Stance, on TOP of that, the speed reduction (After Ram) does NOT take place untill another half second after the "stance" has ended. This also is bugged.
These 2 bugs together make it so you can "Dual Ram". And believe, I have NOTHING against it, as long as Anet had mentioned it somewhere.

You say am too "bad" to get in top 100? Ok, once again, and please just read this: HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN, THAT IN THE LAST 3 HOURS (When I found out about Dual Ram) MY AVERAGE SCORE WENT UP WITH 10-12K, AND MY MAX SCORES WERE 474K, 472K, 471K? IN NONE OF THESE RUNS I GOT MORE THAN 1 ECHO OR 1 SRB!

If I knew about the exploit in the beginning of the Event, I would have had a Beetle. But gues what, that's NOT my point, my point is that "glitch" abusing is getting rewarded...

~ Dan ~ · Feb 14, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

That's not how it works, I give an arguement, and you give one. Whoever gets the best/most good arguements wins...

omg guise he laying down da rulez 2 [email protected]!2

Nor · Feb 14, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

What is wrong with some people? Lain Akazukin, you are ,close to, the most ignorant person I have met on a forum

You KNOW you're wrong, and you as a defense you always hide behind the: "I WUS WAAYA BETTA AND U JUST SACKED!!!"

That's not how it works, I give an arguement, and you give one. Whoever gets the best/most good arguements wins...

And yes: "You should have played better" is NOT an arguement.

You say you got 2 TOP100 scores without Dual Ram? Bs, what's the point of lying here? I must have done over 500 runs during the weekend (Prolly bit more), and I NEVER managed to get passed Spiral at constant High speed. (Unless I had echo or SRB)
I tried about 50 different strategies, varieing from Ram -> Dash, Ram -> Dash before Gate, etc... NONE of them got me closely to what Dual Ram did. Dual Ram for me trough that intire area a +- 85% Speed (Without Echo or SRB)... My max score (With 2 SRB and Echo) was 467K, Still lacking 13K, I hardly believe you can make up 13 seconds without Dual Ramming!

Look, Ram does NOT work the way a skill SHOULD work, it works like a Stance, on TOP of that, the speed reduction (After Ram) does NOT take place untill another half second after the "stance" has ended. This also is bugged.
These 2 bugs together make it so you can "Dual Ram". And believe, I have NOTHING against it, as long as Anet had mentioned it somewhere.

You say am too "bad" to get in top 100? Ok, once again, and please just read this: HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN, THAT IN THE LAST 3 HOURS (When I found out about Dual Ram) MY AVERAGE SCORE WENT UP WITH 10-12K, AND MY MAX SCORES WERE 474K, 472K, 471K? IN NONE OF THESE RUNS I GOT MORE THAN 1 ECHO OR 1 SRB!

If I knew about the exploit in the beginning of the Event, I would have had a Beetle. But gues what, that's NOT my point, my point is that "glitch" abusing is getting rewarded...

/agree.

every1 who used the double ram as an exploit and not report it should get sanctioned :/ ,even more for pulling out ppl out of the 100 top.

pd: in my opinion Lain akazukin lies... and yuri the first sanctioned for using this exploit to get spots in the top 100 !!

Ekelon · Feb 14, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor

/agree.

every1 who used the double ram as an exploit and not report it should get sanctioned :/ ,even more for pulling out ppl out of the 100 top.

pd: in my opinion Lain akazukin lies... and yuri the first sanctioned for using this exploit to get spots in the top 100 !!

I did not get any of my top 100 high scores without getting double ram. I didn't even know how to use double ram until that Sunday, but the thing is I didn't achieve any top 100 scores on Sunday...

The method I use was what most people used (I assume before the double ram method was discovered), which basically involved using Ram before Dash every single time to maximize speed. Using ram at the top of the bridge and dash and the beginning of the second speed keeps my speed above 80% throughout the beach stretch to where when I get the next recharge I use dash to get back to 100% right after gate 6. Quit QQ'ing please. I'm sorry there IS skill involved in this game. This rollerbeetle QQ'ing reminds me SO much of what Hero Battles was like before observer mode was implemented.

Kashrlyyk · Feb 14, 2008, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixro

Doesn't seem like a bug to me, ram works differently than a skill stack because it's dynamic.

Ram will save your current RRPM and return to that amount when it ends. e.g.

Starting RRPM 25%, use ram, 25% saved as a variable, ram finishes, load variable.

Starting RRPM 25%, use ram, 25% saved as a variable, once you reach 100% before ram ends, use ram again, 100% is saved as the variable of your starting RRPM before the original variable had time to load, ram finishes, you return to 100% rrpm when the new variable amount is loaded.

A simple fix to this "bug" would be to make sure that when you use ram a second time the original variable containing your RRPM is not replaced or is loaded first before increasing the speed to 100%. This way, no matter how many rams you used or echo'd, you'd always return to your original starting RRPM before the first ram was used.

When you read the description, it is clear that Ram doesn´t work like it should be. So yes, using the double ram thing is cheating and bug exploiting. But I don´t think they will do anything about it. Or did they ban players that exploited Grenth Balance, when it did more damage than it should have?

Nor · Feb 14, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

I did not get any of my top 100 high scores without getting double ram. I didn't even know how to use double ram until that Sunday, but the thing is I didn't achieve any top 100 scores on Sunday...

The method I use was what most people used (I assume before the double ram method was discovered), which basically involved using Ram before Dash every single time to maximize speed. Using ram at the top of the bridge and dash and the beginning of the second speed keeps my speed above 80% throughout the beach stretch to where when I get the next recharge I use dash to get back to 100% right after gate 6. Quit QQ'ing please. I'm sorry there IS skill involved in this game. This rollerbeetle QQ'ing reminds me SO much of what Hero Battles was like before observer mode was implemented.

well your ok because u won a pet , but its not about QQ thing here its about the use of an exploit that made few people getting the price so its not fair , its against the rules ,etc...

good for you for getting it without bugs , but thats not the point you know.

and the observer mode made things more guarded so exploits in skills could get found easy its not a bad addition

Ekelon · Feb 14, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor

well your ok because u won a pet , but its not about QQ thing here its about the use of an exploit that made few people getting the price so its not fair , its against the rules ,etc...

good for you for getting it without bugs , but thats not the point you know.

and the observer mode made things more guarded so exploits in skills could get found easy its not a bad addition

Yeah, but the only problem with adding rollerbeetle observer mode. Is that making the top score IS the basis of the game. Because the point of the top 100 is NOT how well you do player vs. player, that means the results CAN be repeated between runs. Since in this game you are not actually against another opponent but against a constant and identical environment, observer mode does not work.

Not sure if I explained that correctly but I hope you know what I mean.

Lain Akazukin · Feb 14, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

What is wrong with some people? Lain Akazukin, you are ,close to, the most ignorant person I have met on a forum

I'm ignorant? Do you even know what that word means? LOL

And please explain to me where I'm being wrong about something? I got all my top 100 scores without double ram, I know that for a fact because I was the one doing the racing. You don't have to believe me, but don't call me a liar if you can't back it up.

Quote:

And yes: "You should have played better" is NOT an arguement.

You should have played better. End of story. New chances and new prizes next year.

Madbull2 · Feb 14, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Take this from someone who was a fraction of a second away from being in the top 100. Double ramming is not cheating, and I certainly don't blame anyone who used it for knocking me out of the top 100 (I do however blame there multiple entries in the top 100 for it, but that's Anet's fault) The facts are, everyone had an equal chance to figure out that trick, and that's all it is, a trick. It's not like it was a secret that could only be known by a select few. If they figured it out on their own, then it's no more cheating then having a set run path, or only hitting certain boxes to maximize time. It's all part of the game. If the double ram trick involved anything outside of that, which it doesn't, then yes, it would be "cheating" but it doesn't. If you guys want something to complain about, complain about the horrific way Anet went about deciding the "top 100 racers".

Martin Alvito · Feb 15, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

The method I use was what most people used (I assume before the double ram method was discovered), which basically involved using Ram before Dash every single time to maximize speed.

Dark and I were double ramming gate 4 and the last gate during the original weekend. I switched my start to double ramming gate 2 during the second weekend. Although I don't think I mentioned it to anyone, most of the old school top 100 players saw me run that start at one point or another. Not that I ever paid much attention to the mechanism behind the output; at gate 4 it's the most efficient solution to maintaining momentum, and it always seemed obvious to me that you should double ram the last hill regardless of the mechanics involved.

This method wasn't commonly known? I'm stunned. It doesn't make a huge difference, but it's good for a couple of seconds during your run. I suppose that's the difference between a fail 475+ and a succeed 477+ run at the margin, though.

EDIT: How were you throwing up 480+ runs without double ram last year? Those must have been some tight runs.

(Yes, I gather that by 'double ram' you mean double ramming the spiral. This is, in my judgment, misguided when playing echo/SRB. I'll test and compare during the next time the arena is open.)

Ekelon · Feb 15, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Dark and I were double ramming gate 4 and the last gate during the original weekend. I switched my start to double ramming gate 2 during the second weekend. Although I don't think I mentioned it to anyone, most of the old school top 100 players saw me run that start at one point or another. Not that I ever paid much attention to the mechanism behind the output; at gate 4 it's the most efficient solution to maintaining momentum, and it always seemed obvious to me that you should double ram the last hill regardless of the mechanics involved.

This method wasn't commonly known? I'm stunned. It doesn't make a huge difference, but it's good for a couple of seconds during your run. I suppose that's the difference between a fail 475+ and a succeed 477+ run at the margin, though.

EDIT: How were you throwing up 480+ runs without double ram last year? Those must have been some tight runs.

(Yes, I gather that by 'double ram' you mean double ramming the spiral. This is, in my judgment, misguided when playing echo/SRB. I'll test and compare during the next time the arena is open.)

I threw two 481k runs and one 480k run. It's a secret though! No double rams at all. I feel like I'm revealing too many of my strategies already.

MoriaOrc · Feb 15, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

Code:

Ram: For 2 seconds, all adjacent enemy rollerbeetles are knocked down.

How did logically somone get that to translate to a full rrpm boast?

I agree, Ram's skill description doesn't mention a speed boost in any way, shape, or form. I guess everyone who ever used it for speed instead of KD is a damn dirty exploiter?[/sarcasm]

Ram's observable effects (KD those around you and a speed boost to max for 2 seconds) are clearly different from it's skill description, and have been for the entirety of RBR.